Going to the Chapel?

Published by | 31 Comments | same sex marriage

same sex marriageSame-sex marriage. ugh…talk about a bomb.  I struggled all week over whether to bring it up.  Since this is, in theory, a blog about relationships, it seems to fit under the umbrella.  My main problem with blogging about it is that above all,  I wish Christians would stay out of it….  And here I am. Getting involved. Publicly.  Here are my main thoughts as of today:

1. I’m not the best person to ask.  I am straight.  My closest friends and family are straight.  I’m also pretty politically ignorant at this time in my life. I worked on a political radio show just long enough to become disenchanted. I’d be lying through my teeth if I said I watched more CNN than STYLE Network.    The one thing I bring to the table is my ability to (hopefully) think and care about people as best I can through a Christian perspective.

2. A friend had a status update of “If you don’t like gay marriage, don’t get gay married“.  Bold. Can’t say I don’t like it.  I don’t like the idea of legislating my religious Christian values on people who aren’t Christian.  I wouldn’t want it done to me.  Do I think homosexuality is a sin? I do. Do I sin? All time.  It’s messy. Government isn’t the answer.

3.  I hate the idea of putting anything in between someone who doesn’t know Jesus and Jesus. Like a street corner poster, unwelcoming spirit,  or that weird shakey face thing women get when they are talking while angry/afraid.  Who can see Jesus through all of that?  If we believe He offers the best plan for life, let’s lovingly lead people to Him and let Him take care of the convicting and changing.

same-sex mariage4.  Same-sex marriage isn’t the biggest problem facing marriage and family. We are.  We’ve done a terrible job with fidelity, fathering, and set unrealistic expectations for marriage all on our own.  Can you imagine if Christians took all their passion, time, money and energy and channelled it into growing healthy singles, marriages, and parents that were centered on Christ?  If we held out a way of life that people wanted in on then sin could be traded for life, bondage for freedom, fear for peace.  RELEVANT Magazine posted a smart people debate about it.  My main issue with the writer who is against same-sex unions is that he is worried about what it will do for the definition/meaning of marriage.  To me, it’s entirely up to me to take care of the definition of my marriage and keep it Biblical.  It’s up to me to make it meaningful, not culture.

Hopefully this came across as an invitation for discussion.  What do you think?  What have I missed?  How or will you vote?   Please leave your thoughts. Especially if they are different from mine. But also if they are like mine. Than I’ll feel better about myself. Just kidding. Kind of.

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31 responses to “Going to the Chapel?”

  1. Chris says:

    Cindy, so well articulated! I’m in total agreement with you but I’m not able to communicate as well as you:) Good work

  2. Chris55 says:

    Here’s the deal, if the person advocating gay marriage is not a self-professing follower of Christ, then we as Christians have no right, direction, mission, or crusade to tell them they are wrong. They do not have the same set of values, their values are not rooted in Christ. We can however, as this blog and more importantly, Jesus points out, be examples to the world by how we live and act.

    Now if a self-professing Christian, who believes in Jesus, and believes in what the Bible says believes in gay marriage, then there is where we can LOVINGLY step in and have a discussion about right and wrong. We can lovingly correct and direct our brother or sister to bible passages like Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, 1 Corinthians 6: 9-10, 1 Timothy 1: 9-10, and Jude 1:7 which goes with Genesis 19. Like all sins, it leads away from the Kingdom of God, not to it. I’m in no way saying this sin is more vile then the next, sin is sin is sin is sin…no way around it.

    Also, there have been recent comments in the news that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, which is true. But then again why should he have to? If you read Leviticus you would know that it had already been established as sin before his coming to earth. Jesus still stood for, and followed, the laws that his Father had given to the Hebrews as they came out of the desert to inherit the promised land. He also mentioned loving your neighbor as your self. Are we loving our (Christina / Non Christian) neighbor by telling them they are going to burn in hell for homosexuality? I did not know you were privy to God’s book of who is in and who is out.

    Another thing, if we are worried about our children coming home with questions about two daddy households or two mommy households and we feel overwhelmed by it, TOO BAD. I grew up in a Christian household and I got the sex talk at school not by my parents…and I think I got the wait before marriage sex talk once, other then that nothing…until I was much older, out of college, and I initiated the conversation. Parents need to talk with their children about faith, sex, God, and homosexuality REGARDLESS of what the schools teach. If you believe it’s the school’s duty to teach your kid what is right and what is wrong, as far as gay marriage, then you are neglecting your role as a parent. Let the school supplement what you are teaching them, or in the case of something you do not agree with, it will be a great lesson for your child to learn that you will meet opposition because of your beliefs. The knowledge of RIGHT and WRONG should be established in the home and at Church, through nightly discussions or whenever you have the time to sit with your kids and talk about our Christian values as opposed to the context of the world. AND NO, I am not a parent, but I am a child of parents who did not take the time to discuss sex within the context of our beliefs as Christians via the Bible. As for what I my parents said about homosexuality, I was told it was bad and was not right due to our Faith, which as a young man I translated that into gay people equals evil. It took a close friend coming out to me to realize that I’ve been evil, instead of loving I hated.

    I am not for gay marriage in the context of the Church, it’s wrong and it’s a sin. I think the blog hits it right on the head with point 4, lets talk about the marriage life of our church, it’s way messed up and has been long before the “danger” of homosexuality “threatened” to destroy it. Lets look internally towards the Church and heal our multi-fractured body before we start telling others who do not worship our God how to live their lives.

    • Chris55 says:

      And yes…my thought is longer then your blog…is that bad?

    • Courtney says:

      Hi Chris, just so you know, Leviticus 20:13 says that they should be put to death. are you sure you want to type that in a post about Christ’s love?

    • Chris55 says:

      Just to clarify, I know that in Leviticus it says to stone the two men who engage in a sexual act. I DO NOT believe that we should be killing people for sinning. Now because of Jesus we do not have to die for our sins. So when I wrote we should lovingly direct our brothers and sisters in Christ to the above passages, I meant it more as a way to illustrate that God does not condone homosexuality as he does not condone SIN, but God still loves the sinner. The reason he gave us these rules, was so that we could live life to the fullest. Again, if you believe in God, then you believe he knows what he is doing and that what he gives to us as rules are for our benefit.

  3. Alecia says:

    I’m with you,sister…ugh!!! Practically speaking, how do we “hate the sin and love the sinner?” How does Jesus do that for me? Certainly not by telling me to clean up my act before he shows me grace. The grace always comes first. So I guess as a follower of Jesus I have to amp up the grace. And keep praying. Lordhavemercyonmeasinner.

  4. XcptprinceX says:

    ‘Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.
    Leviticus 18:19

  5. Davey Marvich says:

    You rule, Cindy.

  6. Alice says:

    You say you don’t like the idea of people legislating Christian values on you but that is exactly what the gay rights movement is trying to do to you. I would ask- where are the proper places that Christians can promote and voice the values the Bible teaches, if not in church? While all kinds of values are being promoted and encouraged in our media today, there are very little Christian values being discussed in the same venues. When they are, they are shot down by those who disagree. I would challenge you to not be so naive about our freedoms as belivers. If we look the other way too long, we will wake up in a world where to name the name of Christ and teach the Bible will be illegal.

    • Good points, Alice. Christians should be able to voice their opinions without judgement just as much as any other group. I guess you could call it naive, but I don’t sense or feel that groups are trying to legislate values on me at this point.

  7. Mike says:

    Dietich Bonhoeffer obviously engaged his culture for the common good. Almost all morality is legislated. The mission of the church is the gospel and not the political arena, but it must speak out when other voices try to reinterpret the techings of Christ. As citizens in a society, we shoud speak out and vote for that which is for the common good. This impacts our positions on abortion, infanticide, euthanasia, and homosexuality.

    • Thanks for responding! The question becomes how to best engage the culture, while keeping in mind the most important goal. I don’t think legislation and public displays of judgement is the best way. Also, I feel the first three in your list have to do with life and death while your fourth one doesn’t.

      • Mike says:

        There was no mention in my response to public displays of judgment, but in a republic all citizens have the responsibility to be involved in the political process. Promoting wise legislation is part of that process. Just like we have drug laws, laws about polygamy and adult sex with minors (all of these may not be life and death issues), we choose to believe there is value for these laws for the common good.

  8. Jenalee says:

    So many emotions arise in me while reading this.

    I guess one thing I always remember is: if you don’t stand for something, youll fall for anything.

  9. Alecia says:

    If you haven’t seen this Tim Keller interview on the topic, watch it. Such grace, humor, ease. Would that we were all so calm.

  10. I LOVE this Cindy! I totally agree — this should not be a political debate and as Christians I think we have bastardized grace (in general but especially) in regards to this issue.
    ALSO I can legally marry my cousin and/or get a divorce after a week without much issue, yet homosexuality is to blame for the downfall of marriage? Please.

  11. Anonymous says:

    I want to first say that I love and adore you, which is the reason I read your blog, because I jumped at the opportunity to support you,
    Second, I feel very strongly about this issue and I kept this anonymous because I don’t want any weirdness between us.
    Reading this broke my heart. I struggled since reading it whether to say something or just let it go. But as i applaud and admire your ability to state your limitations to understanding the issue and your desire to be so honest, i decided i had to be honest too, especially as you asked to hear from those that disagree. Maybe it’s because some of my favorite people in my life have been gay, maybe its because one of them was a Christian and so amazing, but killed himself because he struggled every day with hating himself because that is what his church told him he should feel. Maybe even though I consider myself a Christian, I’m just not very good at it. As everyone else has stated its hard to choose what in the Bible to follow strictly and what not to, and quite frankly, I do not see how anything that promotes love and fidelity between two consenting adults, can be a sin.
    I believe that I sin, I also believe that while it may not be a conscious thought at the time when I do, it is a choice that I am making. I do not believe that homosexuality is a choice. I believe that it is the way that God, in all his infinite wisdom and love, just made some people. I believe that love, above all other things, is what God truly cares about, love for yourself and love for each other. I also believe that while God might not be infallible, the Bible can be. It is only as good as the people that interpret it and I believe that it was never meant to stop people who love God and happen to not be able to not help loving someone who happens to be the same gender, from loving themselves.
    Maybe I’m wrong, but I will never be convinced that someone who wants to declare their love in front of God and the world by pledging their fidelity and honor to the person they love, be it same gender or not, is wrong.

    • Michael says:

      Note: I use “Queer” as an umbrella term for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and other sex/gender expressions. It is not, in any way, meant in a derogatory sense; if there is a better word that would should probably be used let me know. I personally HATE the word because it implies right away that something is “abnormal” but I also know some LBGT groups that use it as a catch-all. So I will use it for brevity’s sake. And I speak about the church and not politically (politically I think queer marriage is fine because Christian law does not apply to non-Christians).

      I also agree that homosexuality is not a choice. Just as I also think sin is not a choice. I have no problem with someone being queer. And I know a few queers who are Christians and believe that sex outside of marriage is wrong but sex within marriage—be it homo or hetero—is okay. So the issue, for you it seems, comes down to wether or not queer sexuality is wrong. Is that what you are saying is the fundamental issue? That some Christians see queer sexuality as Biblically wrong and others read it as being permissible?

      But to me even that doesn’t seem like the crux of the issue. The main issue within the church is: can someone be openly queer and engage in the practice while still having an impacting, validated, and important voice, role, or service in the church? And the answer to that, I think, is yes. Do I think queer sexuality is right? No. But I do think the person has as much say in how the church functions as the next person. Why? Because we are all very mess up people trying to figure out how to best serve each other and the world. And to me, that is what is important. Questions of sexuality are great and good discussions. Just as much as what the end times will be like, wether we are saved by penal substitution or by a ransom to the devil, or if birth control is akin to abortion. These are good and edifying conversations and perfectly acceptable within a unified church. Because they are not salvation issues. But I think that is what many people on both sides treat them like. And this violent reaction to queers as if it were a salvation issue is what scares off many potential conversations, discussions, and arguments about it that would be beneficial and good. Am I skirting the gay marriage issue? Probably. But it is because it scares me silly to talk about.

      I think your point was right in that we can misinterpret the Bible. So forgive my post-modernism when I ask: how can your interpretation of sexuality be more right than mine? While I think my view is more orthodox and true you believe that yours is true because it is more accepting. But we both think it is Christ-like. I don’t want to convince a queer that they are wrong. Ever. That is not my job. That is the Holy Spirit’s. And may the Spirit change me if I am wrong. Instead I want to work alongside the conservative families, the rapists, the sex addicts, the Christian school kids, the drug dealers, and the retired folks in serving one-another, worshiping God, loving our neighbors, and caring so much for others that it hurts so much that we are forgiving constantly. And there is plenty of space for queers join in on this great work as well. And I want them to because who am I to deny anyone Christ and his Kingdom?

      Eck. God have mercy on this post for it’s content and brevity. I really don’t know what I’m talking about most of the time.

      • Thanks, Michael! I know you weren’t responding to me but wanted to acknowledge your points. You bring up some new facets of the issue. Your point about the difficulty in deciding whose interpretation of sexuality is right and what to base that on was great. As I said- messy. We need more open discussion about it.

    • Thank you for writing. I’m sorry, so sorry, about your friend. That’s a terrible tragedy.

      Thank you for taking the time to give your opinion. Part of why I was scared (terrified) really to bring this up in a blog was that I was afraid I wouldn’t be able to communicate my thoughts in love. I’m sorry I hurt you. That wasn’t my intention. As you can see, I’ve upset people on both sides. I want this to be a place where everyone can say their opinon and still part as friends. We have to be able to stay in relationshp with people who think differently from us. We have to be ok with disagreements if we are going to learn. I’m sorry the church your friend went to led him to hate himself. That isn’t part of my beliefs. I agree with you that God is about love. However, I don’t think calling something sin is inherently unloving. It can be and it can be done in an unloving way. It can also be one of the most loving acts you can do for someone.

      Thank you for reading and responding. I’m going to get it wrong pleanty of times on this blog. I will post things I will later wish to take back- I’m certain of it. It’s one of the hard parts of putting my opinions out there. Thank you for your grace.

  12. Keri Bender says:

    i just found this one. and i have to say AGREE. your points are right on- i especially agree with number three. i didn’t read all the comments, so i’m sorry if i’m just repeating echos of stuff, but we’re missing it if our only message to gay people is “you can’t get married.” i’m not a political kind of girl, but for the few gay people in my life, i’d rather they know me and my family by our love and not for our stance on gay marriage.

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